Tim Collins travelled to Gdansk, Poland with the generous help of Cathay Pacific and the Polish Embassy in Wellington.

Photograph by Kathleen Collins

TODAY, Lech Walesa runs the Lech Walesa Institute, founded in 1995, whose mission is to support democracy and local governments in Poland and throughout the world. The institute is committed to solidarity with pro-democracy movements worldwide. Walesa recently led a delegation to assist with transition of power following the revolution in Tunisia. He plans to visit New Zealand for the first time within the next 12 months.

Walesa’s current offices on the top floor of Gdansk’s historic Green Gate residence are far removed from the docks where he rose to fame. But his commitment to peaceful democratic change is as strong as ever.

He met with IN-Business publisher Tim Collins in Gdansk, Poland, to discuss globalisation, China and New Zealand vodka.

“WE SHOOK GOD ALMIGHTY.
We are not afraid of our neighbours any more. We had to rearrange life and so it happened . Sometimes I’m afraid I awoke the demons, the demons of freedom. Where is the responsibility? So, it’s a huge chance and we have many things to discuss, but also there are threats.

WE STARTED AS THE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,
with workers against the system, and suddenly it’s turned out that we have the whole of Europe, and now we have the whole world. It is a global world. So here are new programmes, new democracies.

If somebody told me that I would live to see such changes in Poland, I wouldn’t believe it. But now when I think how after all those years, how much better things could have been done, I am not satisfied.

I CHOSE ANOTHER WAY, NOT LIKE LENIN OR CASTRO.
The problem is whether I won or lost. Many say I lost. I’m saying I won. New processes started. Because the revolution was not for me; the revolution was for democracy, freedom.

My fight and the fight of Poland opened the subject of globalisation. I would like to focus on building the programme and structures of globalisation. Everybody sees that. There are a lot of ideas – and everybody sees that in a different way.

The present programmes, political and economical, do not fit globalisation. We have been competing within the countries – continents even – and globalisation does not allow that anymore. It’s a different philosophy.

We have to take a system for globalisation from the “law of the road”. Anybody – the Arab, the black, the white, whoever, can drive on the road, and it is okay. We would like to make such regulations for other subjects and other ways of living so that we can drive like that. Economics, politics, science, healthcare . . .

NOT TOO FAR HOWEVER.
I will never agree that my wife will be globalised! So there are some subjects that we don’t want globalised. That is why we have to choose, definitely, those things that everyone will agree. Everybody has different values… so there is a lot to talk about, to speak about, and to quarrel about too, and this generation will have to do it. I am discussing this during my visits to every continent.

I KNOW NEW ZEALAND ONLY FROM THE MAP.
I would like to see it by being there. Maybe I will find something important which will be good for my fight.

I have been invited as a revolutionary to help transition power in Tunisia, to share my point of view. I have been talking about how technology will focus people on the changes, and force people to change their point of view and way of living. I have spoken to the elites of the nations to get prepared so that there will be no fighting, no shooting, and no aiming at one another – so that the solutions will be less painful. When I go there I will see how possible it is.

I AM TRYING TO HELP CUBA BECAUSE IT IS A WONDERFUL COUNTRY.
We are trying to change so much in Cuba, as much as possible, so that other people can go and cherish what Cuba has to give. It is very dangerous there and too near the United States. Those who are most active are emigrating and therefore they are weakening the fight.

Sooner or later Cuba is going to be free, finally, because mankind is focusing on Cuba. And there are huge businesses that can be done there. At the same time those businesses are giving a lot of health for the people.

WE ARE ALSO TRYING TO FOCUS ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CHINA –
but from the other perspective. As I said before, the world has to become globalised and there is no globalisation without China. They have a different way, different road to the future, different structures.

I am for globalisation but I don’t like the Chinese solutions. It should be that all of Europe, together with the United States, should press on China to change. If not, China will press on us. This is the choice we have.

I have connections with revolutionaries in China but have to be very careful because I know what pressures they are under. I don’t want to endanger them. They cannot change so fast in China. Because it is like I always give the example of Poland and the road system – we can drive 200 kilometres per hour. China, on the other hand, is like a huge truck so he can’t do 200 km per hour because there would be accidents. Maybe we should speed that truck up more but maybe not too much… I like them very much, their culture is splendid, and I am thinking of them the best I can but it has to be done slowly.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON’T SPEAK SERIOUSLY ABOUT GLOBALISATION.
My suggestion is that within the United Nations there could be a very small office established with a small sign: ‘Here we are seeking ideas for globalisation’. Three rooms: in one room, we seek the global parliament; the second room, we seek global ruling; and the third – defence, global defence against terrorism for example. And a few people – not many – should sit, think, and propose.

[PRESENTED WITH A BOTTLE OF 42 BELOW VODKA AS A GIFT FROM NEW ZEALAND] DO YOU THINK THAT IT WILL HELP THINKING?
If it will be good, and I will like it, I will tell you when I come to New Zealand.”